Suffering is Optional: A Conversation with Gail Brenner (137)

We are talking with Dr. Gail Brenner, a clinical psychologist whose practice and teachings are unique because of her nondual perspective grounded in deep and practical truths about peace and happiness. She is the author of two books, The End of Self-Help, and Suffering is Optional. We are primarily discussing her most recent book, Suffering is Optional. You can find more on Gail’s work at

In this episode we talk about:

  • What Gail means by “optional suffering” since we know we experience suffering in our lives.

  • What conditioning is and how it affects our lives.

  • What thoughts have to do with suffering.

  • The limiting identity of unworthiness and how that plays out in life.

  • How life without thinking is not lying on a couch like a blob.

  • The value and power of curiosity.